Announcement

Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.

Too strong for your own good?

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Too strong for your own good?

    I've noticed many NHL goalies tend to be incredibly fit albeit their upper bodies appear under developed. Think of guys like Lou, Miller, Fleury, Rinne etc etc, their chest and arm muscles aren't overly impressive. Is there a reason for this? Is it detrimental for a goalie to have big arms and a ripped chest? I'm not sure what my opinion is on this bc I'm not sure if a large upper body slows a goalie down or not. In my mind it could go either way, but based on appearance alone it seems the thin arms may be the way to go.
    Last edited by toddamus; 03-12-2012, 07:16 PM.

  • #2
    While doing a workout that consists entirely of brocurls and flat bench probably won't help your game, I don't think development of the upper body is ever going to be detrimental, unless you develop some sort of muscle imbalance or pack on 50lbs of muscle. I've seen videos of the Ducks goalies doing what looked like a trx based workout with a lot of hanging pushups and rows. I think relative strength compared to lifting numbers is probably more important for goalies/gymnasts/dancers etc than say football linesmen, (duh) but the number one way to increase relative strength is adding muscle mass. The only thing that will really slow you down is fat. Thing is, it can be hard to maintain a lot of mass without getting fat. People who are bodybuilders will tell you that for someone say around 5'9 you can only get to around 220lbs without going over 10% bodyfat if you're not on roids, and these are athletes who sole focus is gaining lean mass, and even then this takes years of cutting and bulking cycles to preserve mass while shedding fat. So you really would have to go out of your way (i.e. become a powerlifter) to get jacked enough to slow yourself down.

    As a side note, since goalies spend a lot of time relatively hunched forward, it might be to your benefit to do some upper back exercises even if you don't lift for upper body size.
    Last edited by Oats; 03-12-2012, 11:13 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Add 10 pounds of weights to your shoulders. How will that help your game? More muscle mass doesn't equate to faster muscles.

      There's little benefit to having more upper body muscle mass, but there are negatives; more time and energy to maintain, increased fatigue and slower movements, etc. Do you want a lighter, more flexible chest protector or a heavier, stiffer one?

      In short, if it helped, they would be doing it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Why would they bother risking a dan blackburn? They need upper body mass like a place kicker does.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by tony20 View Post
          Add 10 pounds of weights to your shoulders. How will that help your game? More muscle mass doesn't equate to faster muscles.

          There's little benefit to having more upper body muscle mass, but there are negatives; more time and energy to maintain, increased fatigue and slower movements, etc. Do you want a lighter, more flexible chest protector or a heavier, stiffer one?

          In short, if it helped, they would be doing it.
          working out does not make you lose flexibility, you would increase flexibility, quicken movements, reduce fatigue. working out doesnt make you out of shape like you seem to be suggesting.

          Comment


          • #6
            it all depends where you are at in your fitness level.

            you want a good weight to strength ratio to prevent injuries and getting hurt out there.

            at the same time you need to have a balance program that works on other areas.


            you need to have a plan and get stronger in the off season and taper down the lifiting so when the season gets around you don't get injured.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by tony20 View Post
              Add 10 pounds of weights to your shoulders. How will that help your game? More muscle mass doesn't equate to faster muscles.

              There's little benefit to having more upper body muscle mass, but there are negatives; more time and energy to maintain, increased fatigue and slower movements, etc. Do you want a lighter, more flexible chest protector or a heavier, stiffer one?

              In short, if it helped, they would be doing it.
              I don't agree with statement. Putting 10ibs weight is much different than putting on 10ibs of dispersed lean muscle mass. It will increase a goalies overall fitness, and maybe make them stronger when guys fall into them, or when playing the puck.

              They don't do it because they're focused on the muscle groups that do make a large difference in their game, core and leg muscles. Not because it will 'slow them down'.

              Comment


              • #8
                my 2 cents

                Don't know if this is just pure coincidence, but think about the goalie who is a real cut and ripped body builder enthusiast: Rick Dipietro. Now who is the goalie who has been injured more than healthy: Rick Dipietro.

                I think extra muscle mass can sometimes put extra strain on joints and tendons, particularly if the extra muscle mass was gained very quickly and-or with the use of body enhancing products, legal or otherwise. I also think that is reason why elite athletes can rip stuff so easily- because their muscle mass and development solicits their frame and skeleton so much
                Last edited by pmzabster; 03-12-2012, 10:34 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Most of what we goalies do is in our legs: that knees-bent stance, skating, dropping to knees and getting back up will develop our leg strength even if we do nothing else. But what do we do without upper bodies? Not as much as our teammates. They are always moving their arms for stickhandling and passing and shooting. They have to be balanced in strength. It seems natural that without other training, goalies are skinnier in the upper body than in the core.

                  I suspect I'm on the thin side of the curve for that: While playing hockey has developed my legs and butt to the point that I'm now on the edge of small and medium, I'm still size small in the chest. Where I suffer the most day-to-day chronic pain is in my right shoulder, especially after hockey games and particularly spirited driving in my new (to me) BMW with it's very German shifter. (No autotragic transmission for me!) I suspect that if I could strengthen my arms and shoulders, I wouldn't have such aches (and thus fewer excuses to whine about it). Problem is, I can't (shouldn't [don't want to]) take a break from either activity that causes the aches. Is it time for pushups and pullups?

                  (I'm 51, 5'10", 140#, up from 130# fifteen years ago.)
                  Last edited by Timberwoof; 03-13-2012, 02:07 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I would do some sort of bandwork if you have an active shoulder problem, the baseball guys and football players with rotator cuff injuries are always in the training room using the stretchy bands. They will bend their elbow to 90 degrees and rotate at the shoulder through different planes of motion, like one is with the band tied to the wall and the arm down rotating into the chest, one is with it tied to the floor rotating the arm up etc. I feel like pullups in particular could aggravate the problem but I really have no idea what I'm taking about so take this with a grain of salt.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by NHGoalie View Post
                      working out does not make you lose flexibility, you would increase flexibility, quicken movements, reduce fatigue. working out doesnt make you out of shape like you seem to be suggesting.
                      putting on too much bulk will reduce your flexibility. think of the body builders that look like they can't even wipe their own butts (extreme example but that's the concept).

                      working out usually doesn't equate to huge muscle mass but there's a point at which muscle hinders movement.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Timberwoof View Post
                        Most of what we goalies do is in our legs: that knees-bent stance, skating, dropping to knees and getting back up will develop our leg strength even if we do nothing else. But what do we do without upper bodies? Not as much as our teammates. They are always moving their arms for stickhandling and passing and shooting. They have to be balanced in strength. It seems natural that without other training, goalies are skinnier in the upper body than in the core.

                        I suspect I'm on the thin side of the curve for that: While playing hockey has developed my legs and butt to the point that I'm now on the edge of small and medium, I'm still size small in the chest. Where I suffer the most day-to-day chronic pain is in my right shoulder, especially after hockey games and particularly spirited driving in my new (to me) BMW with it's very German shifter. (No autotragic transmission for me!) I suspect that if I could strengthen my arms and shoulders, I wouldn't have such aches (and thus fewer excuses to whine about it). Problem is, I can't (shouldn't [don't want to]) take a break from either activity that causes the aches. Is it time for pushups and pullups?

                        (I'm 51, 5'10", 140#, up from 130# fifteen years ago.)
                        Manual Transmission in San Francisco with all those hills! No wonder your right shoulder is always in pain

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Bigger muscles = loss of flexibility is a myth that was disproved in the 19th century so it's about as old as weight training itself. Weight training had become popular and there was a lot of push back from some physicians about its ill effects (think circus strong man). Literally a group of circus strong men with leotards and all were assembled and proved that they were flexible as anyone else, and those who trained their bodies to be more flexible were far more flexible than the average guy.

                          You will be as flexible as you train your body to be, and big muscles physically can't block a joint's range of motion (unless your bicep goes from your shoulder to your wrist; then you're really a circus freak!). If you don't stretch, you won't be flexible, period.

                          I've seen an article somewhere but couldn't find the link. It that was specific to hockey and described how a famous NHL player (let's use Jagr although I don't think it was him) had a breakout season as a rookie (might have been in the minors, I forget); then spends the summer getting buffed and ripped chest & arms to get bigger. Results in worst career season as he was off his balance while skating; top heavy as a figure skater would say.

                          There's also an article from Maria @ revconditioning that says that if you think about it, you need to work out upper body enough for balance, sure enough; but most of your strength comes from your legs and core, and most of all your balance on skates. She gives a good example of trying to push someone on the ice using just your arms from a standing position. Then try the same but from an athletic (proper skating) position; using your full body from the legs through the torso and finally up to the shoulders and arms. The power transfer will be THAT much greater no matter how much you can bench press.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by banban View Post
                            Manual Transmission in San Francisco with all those hills! No wonder your right shoulder is always in pain
                            (Not really. I had a little manual Honda for fifteen years in SF without a problem. With proper skill with clutch and handbrake, it's no big deal. Just don't stop too close to the car ahead of you; the driver probably does not now how to coordinate brake and clutch and take off without rolling back.)

                            Probably what does me in is driving a desk all day.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'm 15 I started weight lifting (squatting mostly) because it was the draft year and all. And after a couple summer practices I pulled my groin, was out for a month.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X