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#1 reason to vote for health care reform proposed by Congress

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Sprawl View Post
    The Rich Housewife who wants the MRI just cause of a minor headahce twice a year, doesn't get priority over the 18 year old who hit his head working the factories and needs an MRI.
    Puh-LEEZ! Are you insinuating that this is the way things are done in the States? Emergency treatment is always given priority; non-emergent care is bumped back for emergent care all the time, and not just for MRIs or CT scans.

    When I tore up my knee, it was a Saturday afternoon. I had my MRI at 5:00 in the morning on Tuesday. Considering that I'm one of those "rich" people in that I have private health insurance, how come I didn't get in right away for an MRI??? Maybe because it wasn't a life-threatening emergency???

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Threeleggedyoyo View Post
      2) Call me selfish, but I really don't want my tax money (read: MY money) spent on preventable diseases like smoking-related cancer. I'd rather people pay for their own preventable treatments rather than robbing me for their own stupid mistakes. If health care in the public option ends up costing me significantly more, and the money is being used for a lot of these kinds of things, then I've got a problem with it.

      So... yeah. Not all conservatives are untempered wackos.

      ~Brent
      I really hate to break this to you, but you already are paying for these things in terms of Medicare. Do you think this 'socialized medicine' plan should be cut as well (serious question)? You know what else was preventable - the war in Iraq which has now cost the U.S. over 700 Billion dollars. I'm not trying to move the debate, but we'll probably be looked upon with embarrassment in the future that we were willing to spend so much on war and then claim we were not able to provide universal healthcare.

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      • #18
        Three legged, great post. But just a couple of quick thoughts. Some of the cancers that you mentioned as self inflicted don't always work that way. Many people in this country develop lung cancer without ever had one cigarette. Americans I agree have horrible personal health habits.

        Again, my point is that while you have access to a GROUP health plan then in most cases you are one happy camper. When the time comes to buy an individual policy or a small group plan then you will understand the severe problems we face in this country. Just for kicks go to Blue Cross's web page and quote your own health plan. Could you afford it? Could you qualify for it health wise? Remember, a busted up knee that has not been repaired will be waived, asthma? diabetes? overweight?high blood pressure? any preexisting conditions? Either coverage waived or rated or oh oh REJECTED!

        Time for all Americans to have health insurance.


        700 Billion on the wars is just a estimate, some have the amount to double that. Remember Bush did not really give the American public a true accounting of the cost. I laugh my butt of when I go back to the original projected cost (you tube it) of $87 BILLION. Also how about the Mission Accomplished statement? Should have wrapped it up then and there.
        Last edited by azdave; 03-10-2010, 09:07 AM.

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        • #19
          Most real medical research in the US is done at universities by PhDs, not by doctors with MDs. The research that drug companies do is mostly to discover a new molecule that does pretty much what an existing one does so that when the patents on the first one run out, they can replace it with a new ad campaign for the new one.

          I'll h ave to give Rachel and Keith props: When someone in the Obama administration screws up, they do not hesitate to tell people about it. Rachel pretty much broke the story about the secret war in Pakistan. And those two, along with Ed, are hammering the Democrats for being too meek and compromising everything away in the name of bipartisanship. They're not sycophants.

          I enjoy reading all the criticism of Jon Stewart (a liberal pretending to be a comedian; it's almost as good as when some journalist criticized his journalistic integrity). Anyone want to take on Steve Colbert? A comedian pretending to be a conservative?

          And how can we measure Faux News' effectiveness at spreading their propaganda? (It's not news but pretends to be, so it's propaganda.) I think these results make it clear: Disturbing New Daily Kos Survey of Republicans // Current

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          • #20
            azdave - Trust me, I know. For a 25 year old, I have an unusual amount of experience dealing with insurance companies, and what they will and will not pay for, and how much insurance costs. It blows my mind. I don't know how anyone is supposed to afford it and as a young guy getting ready to start out on his own it's very intimidating. I'm just wondering if the government will actually make it cheaper. If it is actually affordable and it covers everyone and everything, I'm fine with that. I just hope that the cost actually goes down and that the level of care does not go down. If that happens, I'm all for the public option. I've just never seen the government make things simpler before, so I'm wary. I hope it all works out.

            Timber - It's just that I don't think Stewart is very funny at all and it seems like his politics come way before producing quality jokes.

            As far as Colbert, I think he is actually very funny. By pretending to be an idiot over-the-top conservative, he enacts what I like to call the "Homer Simpson Principal" in comedic writing. When an obvious idiot says something controversial, you have one of two options:

            1) "Oh my gosh, look at what a stupid idiot it takes to say that kind of thing! He's so wrong!"
            2) "Oh my gosh, he's such a stupid idiot that he doesn't know better than to be the one who finally says it! He's so right and says what I can't!"

            Some argue that Colbert is actually a straight satire of conservatism from a completely liberal standpoint, but I disagree. I think it's more of a case of the above. The fact that he is careful not to disclose his own "actual" politics is a very wise move from an entertainer standpoint using this comic strategy.

            Yet another way to view him is as a parody of what liberals think of conservatives because he's so ridiculous (kind of meta, I know, but I feel that way at times and find it very funny).

            Aside from that, I find his absurdist comedy funny as well as his crusades to promote himself in "real life."

            Stewart has none of this. He thinks he's funny for smugly calling everything conservatives say stupid and having a crowd that will cheer for whatever he says because they feel the same way. Yes, this is a bit of a hyperbole since he has actual funny jokes on occasion, but it's how I feel too much of the time to really dig the show.

            ~Brent

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            • #21
              This is my favorite, i mean i wish all the people that want the health care take over bill to pass would follow Pelosi off of a cliff with this explanation.

              YouTube - Pelosi: "We Have to Pass the Bill So That You Can Find Out What Is In It"

              It's like here take this box. Oh what's in it? I dunno some stuff? Will it hurt or cripple you? Oh no just open so "we" can find out. I mean what are the chances of their being a bomb in there that would cripple you through taxation? I mean we couldnt have known that we didnt pack the box or anything.

              Just goes to show how far the US as a country has fallen when it comes intelligence and common sense.

              They are going to buy into a take over that is being passed off as reform, and let's Pelosi come out and tell them, that the bill has to be passed so "we can see what's in it" How the hell does she not know whats in it?!?!? It's her pet project
              Last edited by korky15; 03-11-2010, 01:46 AM.

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              • #22
                Meanwhile, in Mass there are CVS's that have a in-store nurse practicianer who for $65 can give you a check up and prescribe medication. This service is growing. In the future we will all get our basic health-care at Walmart, Walgreens and CVS etc.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by korky15 View Post
                  This is my favorite, i mean i wish all the people that want the health care take over bill to pass would follow Pelosi off of a cliff with this explanation.

                  -clip-

                  Just goes to show how far the US as a country has fallen when it comes intelligence and common sense.

                  They are going to buy into a take over that is being passed off as reform, and let's Pelosi come out and tell them, that the bill has to be passed so "we can see what's in it" How the hell does she not know whats in it?!?!? It's her pet project
                  Rest assured that she knows exactly what is in the bill, she just doesn't believe that you need to know. Trust that she would never do anything that would hurt America or Americans.

                  ::m

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Threeleggedyoyo View Post
                    I agree, it's a slippery slope. I would hope sports injuries would be covered. But diseases that come from foolishly taking crap into your body like cigarettes seems like a whole different category to me. Sports are good for you. Cigarettes, drugs, getting drunk enough to hurt yourself, etc. in my mind have no redeeming value at all.



                    ~Brent
                    I'll give up booze and cigars if you go vegan. Seriously, all your guys' fast food hording, red meat eatin' ways is really cramping my wallet. Think of me for once!

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by hroark2112 View Post
                      Rush Limbaugh Says He'll Leave the US If Health Care Reform Is Passed - AOL News

                      If some of the other bags-of-hot-air would follow suit and join him in some faraway place, I'd go on a letter writing crusade to get it approved!!!
                      As crappy as the proposed reforms are, I would be fine with them passing if Rush left......BUT......he would have to not air a show over US airwaves either.

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                      • #26
                        government health care takeover

                        Are you all serious?!?!? Your all brainswashed sheeple if your gonna sit there and say you want this government health care bill to pass. It is gonna ruin our country even more, not only screw over future generations. Read up on it and dont believe whats in the news before you make your nimrod accusations of how good it is going to be or who its going to make leave the States. Rush isn't goin nowwhere he is just another puppet for the Feds.

                        http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcBaSP31Be8

                        wake up folks, watch and learn and next time inform yourself.

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                        • #27
                          Mellin, that video is an excellent example of quote mining. You find some juicy quote, strip it of its context, and milk it for all it's worth.

                          It's the kind of thing that takes one from something Darwin wrote about evolution. He starts out saying it seems impossible to figure out bla bla bla and then goes on to explain exactly how bla bla bla, but the creationists only quote the first part and say "See! See! Darwin said it couldn't be figured out!"

                          Without the lines before and after the ones that particular propagandist is quote-mining, you do not know one thing about what it actually says.

                          Rush is a puppet for the feds? Nimrod accusations? In the same post?! That alone seems to discredit your endorsement of that video.

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                          • #28
                            That video was hilarious! Like timber said total pick and choose what they want and what it means. I love how specific it was " section blah: lines blah through blah". Just forget what everything else around it means or does to those lines, only those lines matter. What killed it for me was when the guy whispers "acorn" in the background all conspiratorially at one point.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Goaliedad View Post
                              Meanwhile, in Mass there are CVS's that have a in-store nurse practicianer who for $65 can give you a check up and prescribe medication. This service is growing. In the future we will all get our basic health-care at Walmart, Walgreens and CVS etc.
                              Sorry, this post has been bugging me for two days.

                              We have nurse practioners in Ontario, too. But they're free. They're not in a drug store, we are moving to nurse practioner based clinics, which do a lot of the "routine" stuff a doctor does.

                              Goalies-r-us, I think you missed Sprawlie's main point on the whole-cutting-the line-thing-cause-I'm-rich.

                              We have access to ANY and ALL healthcare, regardless of gender, social background, race, religion, or any other quality. (but mostly social background, as in the rich and famous)

                              What his point was, that in the U.S., if you have no money, you could in theory, end up waiting because your healthcare provider (Blue Cross, Medicaid) chose to process the "good credit" customers first......

                              In Canada, who you are doesn't matter. Everybody gets treated equally, based on need of the system.

                              What Sprawl was referring to in that aspect, was the fact that more and more of Canadians are starting to think "like" Americans, (by which I mean no disrespect, the American Dream has been the focal point of your culture that it's completely ingrained and accepted as a fact of life), by which the thinking has become, "My life is more important than yours, and I have money, therefore I should get to go first." Again I am not trying to say all Americans are like that, but you would have to agree, that there are more and more of them every day.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by flyersfan2788 View Post
                                What Sprawl was referring to in that aspect, was the fact that more and more of Canadians are starting to think "like" Americans, (by which I mean no disrespect, the American Dream has been the focal point of your culture that it's completely ingrained and accepted as a fact of life), by which the thinking has become, "My life is more important than yours, and I have money, therefore I should get to go first." Again I am not trying to say all Americans are like that, but you would have to agree, that there are more and more of them every day.
                                It may be a different attitude though. One that says, "Wait, I'm actually willing to fork out cash for this procedure, why should I be forced to wait behind people that are not paying?"

                                There are good arguments on both sides of the access issue.

                                One can reasonably argue that everyone should be treated equal, and one can reasonably argue that one's life choices should have an impact on their place in "line" when it comes to health care, as in non-smokers going to the front of the lung-transplant line......

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