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'Breaking Bad' - AMC Show

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  • Originally posted by legace34 View Post
    You can’t just add aside, that’s why I thought it to be irrelevant. Gale is still creating a substance that enables these atrocities to happen. They will happen regardless, but to call him innocent because he’s not intertwined with the other aspects of the meth industry is ignorant to his greyed morality and selfishness.
    Which is basically the entire premise of BB

    Jesse did not kill ‘in cold blood’ as you may want to remember it. Walter kills in cold blood, repeatedly. Jesse is reduced to tears when/after shooting Gale and then spends the next season coming to terms of what he has done.
    He’s inherently against violence, as depicted in the train heist - as convinces everyone to devise a plan where they don’t have to kill the drivers of the train.

    You have to remember Jessie is a kid in this show. He’s what… 22?
    No education, no real family, idiot friends, drug addiction, no support behind him. In the first season his crew/friends only hang around him hoping that he has some drugs for them to scavenge off. He is alone and you can understand how his loyalty to Walt comes about, why he protects him against Gus.

    The problem is people approach it in black and white. Which is yes, why I can understand your frustration when people call Jesse 'good'.
    Jesse eventually admits to Hank and Gomie regarding the kids death . Everyone has demons and his are some massive ones, but he at least feels them in comparison to a lot of empathetic characters in the show.
    Hence why he’s given a touch of sympathy and people come to his defence, because we are shown his humanity and coming to terms with what he has done and his struggles with acceptance.
    He even eventually declares “I’m the bad guy” - this confession happens seasons before Walters pitiful "I did it for me".

    But yes, inherently he’s not ‘a good person’, to define it as black/white, but the whole point of the show is that that definition doesn’t exist, but he’s one of the closest characters to it.
    Jesse is not 22, he's about 30... he says he was born in 84 in the second season. The show is over a two-year span, so the youngest he ever was was about 28. Not the age of ultimate wisdom, but certainly old enough to know the difference between right and wrong. The "he's just a kid" argument doesn't stand too well.

    I still don't think that Jesse being apologetic, sweet, or his desire to reform or cleanse himself of some of the terrible things he's done makes him a good person. Actions speak louder than words, and he's had some awful ones, regardless of why he did it, or how he felt afterwards. And I'm not someone with a simplified view of crime or why people do it.

    Saying "we're all human" and "we all have our demons" is not a strong argument for excusing someone. Yes, we all make mistakes, and most people live to do some things that they will sincerely regret doing. But shooting someone in the face, watching a kid get murdered, years of lying and stealing, drug-dealing and manufacturing, carelessly helping a girl relapse, etc... that's quite a rap sheet.

    We know Jesse to be sweet and lovable and ultimately redeemable in Breaking Bad the television show, I'm willing to guess you would probably not be so forgiving and understanding of someone with that rap sheet in real life. Picture it being someone besides lovable Aaron Paul, and you might get a better picture. If you knew some 30 year old kid with a reputation as a killer and meth cook in your town, someone who had witnessed a child get shot and never did anything about it, I'm going to guess you'd go out of your way to cross the street when you saw them, regardless of their reasons or how they compose themselves otherwise. You might even turn them in - not a good person, even with subjectivity of morals and all our favorite Greek/Kant philosophies.

    I guess I still don't know what your point is... Jesse is a good guy? Jesse isn't a total-evil bad guy? Jesse isn't the worst one on the show? We can't judge Jesse because morality is subjective? All I ever said is that I roll my eyes when people talk about how wonderful and innocent Jesse feels to them.
    I'm going to make this my last post on the subject, just so I don't bore others to death.
    Last edited by stackem33; 10-03-2013, 08:57 AM.

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    • The only recurring characters I can think of on that show that weren't bad in some way were Flynn, baby Holly, and maybe Gomez.

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      • Heís so much older than I thought. Ha. I donít know any 30 year olds that dress like that thankfully.

        No one here is saying heís a good person, black and white. You said others said that of him to you and thatís what was frustrating you. All Iím saying in that in the context of the show, he is the closest thing to a person with a perceivable growth of conscious for the horrible things that he and others have done. Thatís what separates him from a majority of the rest of the characters and pushes him towards the side of being a Ďgood personí in comparison to everyone elseís development.

        He didnít pull the trigger on the kid Ė youíll have to just let that child killing go because Im not sure how baring witness to the event suddenly makes him as bad as say Todd. Are you wanting vengeance? Eye for an eye right there and then , or should he inform the parents that the kid is in a barrel?
        What action does Jesse take from there to redeem himself from - that he went out of his way to avoid, and then occurred anyway with absolutely no way of knowing what was about to transpire? An action that doesnt get him killed by Walter/Mike or Todd.

        Jesse is not sweet, doesnít apologise for anything he has done and again, proclaims for himself ďIím the bad guyĒ.
        You say actions speak louder than words, and in the scenario in the desert he had no actions to play, but in the development of the character and his consciousness, the choice to leave the meth business entirely, go through a deep depression and then eventually bring Walt down seem to me to be a (slow) process of redemption (??)

        No one is excusing him, but heís the only character to go through a process of really realising the atrocities of what heís been a part of. Thatís why people defend Jesse to you. Anyone who says he's innocent, yes roll your eyes, but it's just as appropriate to roll your eyes at saying Gale was innocent, (or anyone else really).

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        • Just throwing this out there, but I remember reading somewhere that the show is not set in the now but actually several years in the past. I think the thing I read said that season 1 starts in like '05 or '06 or something. This would mean that in the show, Jesse is younger than he would be if the show was taking place in current time. I don't remember where I read this, could have just been someone's speculation so take it for what it's worth.
          Last edited by L7spider; 10-03-2013, 02:56 PM.

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          • Originally posted by gort View Post
            The only recurring characters I can think of on that show that weren't bad in some way were Flynn, baby Holly, and maybe Gomez.
            This is why I liked the show. It was dark before dark was cool. And it was well written. Hank, Walt, etc all had believable dark tendencies. For me, the best scene of the show was, without a doubt, when Walt watched Jane die. Thats when you knew the writers had a real ability to grasp the darkness and had a capability to show it dramatically.

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            • Originally posted by toddamus View Post
              Thats when you knew the writers had a real ability to grasp the darkness and had a capability to show it dramatically.
              Up to this point, Walt had done some bad stuff. The worst being killing Krazy 8, but there was already a small list of bad stuff chalked up to him.

              But I think that scene, where he watched her die, was the defining moment when it comes to his complete movement into the point of no return.

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              • Breaking Bad

                So I was late to the party and only recently watched breaking bad in a marathon style viewing.

                I thought the acting in this was fantastic, especially in the tone and delivery of the main character.

                Now that it's done, has anyone got any other suggestions for what to move onto next?

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                • Originally posted by Linden View Post
                  So I was late to the party and only recently watched breaking bad in a marathon style viewing.

                  I thought the acting in this was fantastic, especially in the tone and delivery of the main character.

                  Now that it's done, has anyone got any other suggestions for what to move onto next?
                  Have you seen The Wire?

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                  • Originally posted by uproar View Post
                    Have you seen The Wire?
                    I have, unfortunately I never really felt it. Thought it wasn't as good as the hype.

                    However I seem to compare everything I watch in that genre to the sopranos and breaking bad is the only one that's came close

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                    • I went to Wheel of Fortune. Little more confusing, but every episode completes every puzzle presented in that show.

                      No cliffhangers!

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                      • Originally posted by Linden View Post
                        I have, unfortunately I never really felt it. Thought it wasn't as good as the hype.

                        However I seem to compare everything I watch in that genre to the sopranos and breaking bad is the only one that's came close
                        I liked Soranos a lot more just because it seemed less far fetched more real. The cast of Breaking Bad seemed more like a group of caricatures.

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                        • Oh man anyone ever check this show out?

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